Craft should (must?) : Display high levels, or be in the pursuit of high levels of execution and technical skill in a given media.
Craft can : Be a representation of lived experiences, the human condition, or the natural / spiritual world.
Art should (must?) : Be a representation of lived experiences, the human condition, or the natural / spiritual world.
Art can : Display high levels, or be in the pursuit of high levels of execution and technical skill in a given media.
This is what I said at the start of the semester about Craft and Art.
Art has a privilege of not necessarily needing to prove or show technique, skill, what would more broadly be called craftsmanship, but it often displays it.
Craft on the other hand has skill, technique, or more broadly craftsmanship as a prerequisite, and the expression of something larger conceptually is secondary to its execution.
With that said, how do you feel about your own craftsmanship in this work? Is it secondary to your concept? Is the execution of your concept as strong as it could be with the current levels of craftsmanship?
If I do not have expert skills at this point in my career in my work something is very wrong...lol...Craftsmanship at the excellent level is a given... always ...but this art goes way beyond mere craftsman ship ...Quality art has to be a merger of content and form not just form, this is a limited form of creative outlet and narrow mindedness and really simply for undergraduate level. Artists are not mere tecnichians.at least I sincerely hope not! Please re read the art statement and maybe take a look at Basquiet,Jackson Pollock,Cy Twombly,Joan Mitchel to help you better understands these concepts. It appears Daniel, that you do place a high level on technique and this makes perfect sense for your area of crafts however, I am a painter and I place a higher level on content and expression which go hand in hand in my area of expertise so these ideas do seem difficult for you to accept and understand. I get that and I hope by discussing these ideas this will help you to understand painters a bit more, that is my intention.
Before this goes farther...Susan I think Daniel is simply curious as to how you balance a loose abstract work based on the chanting of another person ( a spiritual/sacred practice) with a semester based on crafts and craftsmanship. To assume that crafts do not have content is an absolute denial of the book we read and the Craft in America series. In this class there is no difference between what a painter does and what a potter does... we are all makers. Period. Daniel is an outstanding graduate student and a gifted teacher. His curiosity is an example of what was encouraged and supported in Junction during our studio/seminar classes.
Susan I am familiar with the Artist listed, assuming you meant Jean Basquiat? The Houston Museum of Fine Art had a retrospective of Basquiat’s work a few years back that was wonderful.
I totally understand your concept, and the broader ideas behind abstract expressionism in painting. I actually really like a lot of Ab Ex. Art. The first paintings I was drawn to on my first visit to a Museum of Art were works by Mark Rothko and Richard Diebenkorn, as well as more formal paintings like Edward Hooper and Georgia O’Keefe.
I absolutely love going to Art museums, in fact I take my students on a weekend long trip to museums all over the state each year. Just the other week, before the great floods of 2016, we were in DFW. We visited the DMA, the Kimbell, the Nasher, the Fort Worth Modern, the Crow, and the Amon Carter. It is always such a wonderful experience to find something new at a collection I’ve visited numerous times in the past. This past trip I noticed a Natzler bowl from clear across the room and ran over to see it up close. I got to tell my students and the other random people in the room about Otto’s heartbreak when his wife passed and how it kept him from glazing the bisque ware she had thrown before her passing.
I spend a lot of time looking at paints and all works of Art for that matter in museum and gallery settings. The whole reason I started the MAE program was to gain a path into museum education and museum science. So believe me I understand painting, and painters. I paint. I teach painting. Lots of my close friends are painters.
The ideas on where and how concept and form (function) intersect, which of the two takes precedent in different mediums and why, aren’t foreign to me because I am primarily a potter. If anything they have been highlighted over the last decade of my life precisely because I am a potter.
You mention Pollock who was an innovator but the thing is, working within that concept and process isn’t innovative anymore. Pollock is dead.
You mention Basquiat, his work has a strong PERSONAL voice apparent. I would argue, having seen a fair amount of his work up close and in person, it actually does display high levels of craftsmanship and execution. The work has enough information to let the viewer be able to read it, and read the time and effort put into its production.
You mention Cy Twombly again, if you recall earlier in the semester I noted I have visited his works in the Menil collection here in Houston many times. Much like Pollock Twombly was an innovator, and much like Pollock he is dead.
Now I don’t know if you mention these Artist in reference to your work to lend weight or credence to it, or because you think that simply because I make pots I don’t know who Jackson Pollock was. It seems to me that this particular painting is more informed by a painting movement that hit its pinnacle decades ago than the book we all just read about Craft & craftsmanship, how it has developed, and its importance to Art and the broader contemporary culture.
I am in no way attacking your work, and I hope it doesn’t come off as such.
I simply feel that this work doesn’t reflect the depth of your concept at its current levels of craftsmanship. I also can’t help but wonder if these paintings would be more powerful if they were emotional reactions to your own life experiences as opposed to your direct reactions to others suffering, cultural heritage, or trials and triumphs. If they were easier to read visually, independent of an Artist statement. The painting you posted earlier in the semester “She remembered the Sun” displayed a much higher level of execution in my opinion, and I actually really liked the aesthetics of it.
Now that’s all it is at the end of the day, 1 persons opinion. That being said you made a reference to my understanding of Art at an Undergraduate level, as such I must point out that working at the Graduate level you have to be open to others questioning your own work. Nothing is a given.
Daniel, I typically,when lecturing about the art, do not disclose the catalyst for the art,rather I allow the viewer to read the title and usually people seem, for the most part to respond in a visceral manner to the art,typically telling me how they feel about it and somehow many seem to relate to many of the pieces to their personal life an d that is truly the point..for the viewer to feel something....the stories which inspired me to make the art are just the catalyst which makes me want to create and so I feel are unnecessary to discuss in relation to the art.Again i hope I am answering your responses.Thanks
I am not implying, Futur that Daniel is anything but an excellent artist nor am I implying that potters are different from painters in any way. I loved the book and the class however that being said Daniel did imply in a very lengthy manner that my work lacked "good"craftsmanship so I simply responded to that.
Futur and Daniel,I have written more about the piece below where I have posted some details.If I gave the wrong impression in my response to both of you,this is erroneous on my part.I am emotionally involved in this piece at this time as I made it as Pollock says in the quote below,I put literally and emotionally my whole being;body and soul into the making of the art when making it,it was made on the floor in the tradition of sand painting(see Pollock's quote and in reference to or in homage to Haas)Whilst this piece does not resemble Haas sand paintings it does reference it by the color and the use of sand and my using a very large format as Haas liked to do.I am not very good,possibly of explaining this art here in this format so that could also be the problem,miscommunication but I am trying..lol...thanks for the feedback which is always welcome and encouraged from my end.I see so many people not understanding Abstract Expressionism in art that I welcome any healthy discussion on that topic.I hope that I explained myself better.
Susan, for me the disconnection in your work and writing is that you speck of lecturing about art...I prefer the word discussion over lecture. Part of Social Theory (which is what our program is based on)is that everyone , every life is invited and welcomed into the classroom. Thus a discussion not a lecture. This is a small point but a huge part of my approach to art/making/teaching/learning.
Second, with the above said, it is hard to relate to your work when you openly state that your work is your emotional reflection of someone's life. I find this disrespectful. You can not be someone else or assume you have experienced what they experienced. When you talk about your reaction to a book or a story, you are leaving YOU out...we know nothing about you. I know you have exhibited widely and this is just one class...and this is just one opinion.
I never pretend to experience someone else's story I simply paint my emtional and visceral reactions to a story which moved me but that is not important all that is important is the final work
I call it a lecture simply because that is the format and the way it is advertised and typically w 200students after the lecture ant the work is presented there is discussion and questions I did not create the format at all
Craft should (must?) :
ReplyDeleteDisplay high levels, or be in the pursuit of high levels of execution and technical skill in a given media.
Craft can :
Be a representation of lived experiences, the human condition, or the natural / spiritual world.
Art should (must?) :
Be a representation of lived experiences, the human condition, or the natural / spiritual world.
Art can :
Display high levels, or be in the pursuit of high levels of execution and technical skill in a given media.
This is what I said at the start of the semester about Craft and Art.
Art has a privilege of not necessarily needing to prove or show technique, skill, what would more broadly be called craftsmanship, but it often displays it.
Craft on the other hand has skill, technique, or more broadly craftsmanship as a prerequisite, and the expression of something larger conceptually is secondary to its execution.
With that said, how do you feel about your own craftsmanship in this work? Is it secondary to your concept? Is the execution of your concept as strong as it could be with the current levels of craftsmanship?
If I do not have expert skills at this point in my career in my work something is very wrong...lol...Craftsmanship at the excellent level is a given... always ...but this art goes way beyond mere craftsman ship ...Quality art has to be a merger of content and form not just form, this is a limited form of creative outlet and narrow mindedness and really simply for undergraduate level. Artists are not mere tecnichians.at least I sincerely hope not! Please re read the art statement and maybe take a look at Basquiet,Jackson Pollock,Cy Twombly,Joan Mitchel to help you better understands these concepts. It appears Daniel, that you do place a high level on technique and this makes perfect sense for your area of crafts however, I am a painter and I place a higher level on content and expression which go hand in hand in my area of expertise so these ideas do seem difficult for you to accept and understand. I get that and I hope by discussing these ideas this will help you to understand painters a bit more, that is my intention.
ReplyDeleteBefore this goes farther...Susan I think Daniel is simply curious as to how you balance a loose abstract work based on the chanting of another person ( a spiritual/sacred practice) with a semester based on crafts and craftsmanship. To assume that crafts do not have content is an absolute denial of the book we read and the Craft in America series. In this class there is no difference between what a painter does and what a potter does... we are all makers. Period. Daniel is an outstanding graduate student and a gifted teacher. His curiosity is an example of what was encouraged and supported in Junction during our studio/seminar classes.
ReplyDeleteSusan I am familiar with the Artist listed, assuming you meant Jean Basquiat? The Houston Museum of Fine Art had a retrospective of Basquiat’s work a few years back that was wonderful.
ReplyDeleteI totally understand your concept, and the broader ideas behind abstract expressionism in painting. I actually really like a lot of Ab Ex. Art. The first paintings I was drawn to on my first visit to a Museum of Art were works by Mark Rothko and Richard Diebenkorn, as well as more formal paintings like Edward Hooper and Georgia O’Keefe.
I absolutely love going to Art museums, in fact I take my students on a weekend long trip to museums all over the state each year. Just the other week, before the great floods of 2016, we were in DFW. We visited the DMA, the Kimbell, the Nasher, the Fort Worth Modern, the Crow, and the Amon Carter. It is always such a wonderful experience to find something new at a collection I’ve visited numerous times in the past. This past trip I noticed a Natzler bowl from clear across the room and ran over to see it up close. I got to tell my students and the other random people in the room about Otto’s heartbreak when his wife passed and how it kept him from glazing the bisque ware she had thrown before her passing.
I spend a lot of time looking at paints and all works of Art for that matter in museum and gallery settings. The whole reason I started the MAE program was to gain a path into museum education and museum science. So believe me I understand painting, and painters. I paint. I teach painting. Lots of my close friends are painters.
The ideas on where and how concept and form (function) intersect, which of the two takes precedent in different mediums and why, aren’t foreign to me because I am primarily a potter. If anything they have been highlighted over the last decade of my life precisely because I am a potter.
You mention Pollock who was an innovator but the thing is, working within that concept and process isn’t innovative anymore. Pollock is dead.
You mention Basquiat, his work has a strong PERSONAL voice apparent. I would argue, having seen a fair amount of his work up close and in person, it actually does display high levels of craftsmanship and execution. The work has enough information to let the viewer be able to read it, and read the time and effort put into its production.
You mention Cy Twombly again, if you recall earlier in the semester I noted I have visited his works in the Menil collection here in Houston many times. Much like Pollock Twombly was an innovator, and much like Pollock he is dead.
Now I don’t know if you mention these Artist in reference to your work to lend weight or credence to it, or because you think that simply because I make pots I don’t know who Jackson Pollock was. It seems to me that this particular painting is more informed by a painting movement that hit its pinnacle decades ago than the book we all just read about Craft & craftsmanship, how it has developed, and its importance to Art and the broader contemporary culture.
I am in no way attacking your work, and I hope it doesn’t come off as such.
I simply feel that this work doesn’t reflect the depth of your concept at its current levels of craftsmanship. I also can’t help but wonder if these paintings would be more powerful if they were emotional reactions to your own life experiences as opposed to your direct reactions to others suffering, cultural heritage, or trials and triumphs. If they were easier to read visually, independent of an Artist statement.
The painting you posted earlier in the semester “She remembered the Sun” displayed a much higher level of execution in my opinion, and I actually really liked the aesthetics of it.
Now that’s all it is at the end of the day, 1 persons opinion. That being said you made a reference to my understanding of Art at an Undergraduate level, as such I must point out that working at the Graduate level you have to be open to others questioning your own work. Nothing is a given.
Daniel, I typically,when lecturing about the art, do not disclose the catalyst for the art,rather I allow the viewer to read the title and usually people seem, for the most part to respond in a visceral manner to the art,typically telling me how they feel about it and somehow many seem to relate to many of the pieces to their personal life an d that is truly the point..for the viewer to feel something....the stories which inspired me to make the art are just the catalyst which makes me want to create and so I feel are unnecessary to discuss in relation to the art.Again i hope I am answering your responses.Thanks
DeleteI am not implying, Futur that Daniel is anything but an excellent artist nor am I implying that potters are different from painters in any way. I loved the book and the class however that being said Daniel did imply in a very lengthy manner that my work lacked "good"craftsmanship so I simply responded to that.
ReplyDeleteFutur and Daniel,I have written more about the piece below where I have posted some details.If I gave the wrong impression in my response to both of you,this is erroneous on my part.I am emotionally involved in this piece at this time as I made it as Pollock says in the quote below,I put literally and emotionally my whole being;body and soul into the making of the art when making it,it was made on the floor in the tradition of sand painting(see Pollock's quote and in reference to or in homage to Haas)Whilst this piece does not resemble Haas sand paintings it does reference it by the color and the use of sand and my using a very large format as Haas liked to do.I am not very good,possibly of explaining this art here in this format so that could also be the problem,miscommunication but I am trying..lol...thanks for the feedback which is always welcome and encouraged from my end.I see so many people not understanding Abstract Expressionism in art that I welcome any healthy discussion on that topic.I hope that I explained myself better.
ReplyDeleteSusan, for me the disconnection in your work and writing is that you speck of lecturing about art...I prefer the word discussion over lecture. Part of Social Theory (which is what our program is based on)is that everyone , every life is invited and welcomed into the classroom. Thus a discussion not a lecture. This is a small point but a huge part of my approach to art/making/teaching/learning.
ReplyDeleteSecond, with the above said, it is hard to relate to your work when you openly state that your work is your emotional reflection of someone's life. I find this disrespectful. You can not be someone else or assume you have experienced what they experienced. When you talk about your reaction to a book or a story, you are leaving YOU out...we know nothing about you. I know you have exhibited widely and this is just one class...and this is just one opinion.
I never pretend to experience someone else's story I simply paint my emtional and visceral reactions to a story which moved me but that is not important all that is important is the final work
DeleteI call it a lecture simply because that is the format and the way it is advertised and typically w 200students after the lecture ant the work is presented there is discussion and questions I did not create the format at all
Delete